OTTO NEALS: ARTIST AND TEACHER

The road to becoming a successful artist was not easy for Otto Neals).¹ His education and career opportunities were severely limited by racism and segregation (see the interview that follows). During the 1930s Depression, Dell Neals, Otto's mother, left her family behind in South Carolina in order to find work in New York City. She made this decision because Otto's father, Gus, was unable to find steady employment and she knew she had a better chance of finding stable janitorial or domestic work in the North (Fax 1977, 149-50).

A large number of Blacks in southern United States were migrating to the industrial northern cities to look for jobs. Faced with poverty, lynching, and various forms of racism, many Black families believed that they would have a better quality of life if they migrated to the North. It was customary for one family member to travel ahead, find work, and then send for the rest of the family once they had secured employment (Nzegwu, 1993).

Once Dell found work she sent for the family and they all moved to a relative's house in Brooklyn. After living there a few months, a cousin named David relocated to New York and spent a lot of time looking after Otto. David was eight years older than Otto and was artistically inclined. Otto was "fascinated" by David's sketches and inspired to draw (Barnett, 1993). He began creating art at the age of four. Apart from some of the decorations he made in class commemorating the holidays, the art that Otto produced in his youth was mostly under his own supervision. Most of these early ideas were developed using comic strips as guides (Fax 1977, 150-51).

Like other families arriving in Northern Cities, Otto's family discovered that racial discrimination was as much a part of northern life as it was in the South. They experienced limited access to residential communities, businesses, and adequate schools. The family moved around frequently with the result that Otto attended a variety of New York public schools both in and outside of the Black community. Consequently, he witnessed first hand the disproportionate education available to most Blacks. He was a focused student when he attended grade school. Most of his elementary school days were spent in a public school that was approximately ninety five percent Jewish. He worked hard and was always in the top ten percent of his class.

As Otto entered middle school, his family moved to Bedford-Stuyvesant. Here the school was approximately ninety five percent Black and Otto faced the same school material that he had already completed in elementary school. He also noticed that the Black students were not given the same individual attention available to him at the predominantly Jewish school (Fax 1977, 152-53).

According to Elton Fax, Otto fell victim to the segregation practices of New York Public School as he entered High School. Fax points out that because of the lower level of learning achieved at predominately Black public schools, administrators assumed that most Blacks would be better off attending vocational High Schools (Fax 1977, 152). Thus, when it came time to apply to High school, his teachers did not properly counsel Otto and he applied to three High schools. The School of Music and Arts was his first choice; Haren High school was his second choice because of their industrial design program; and his last choice was the High School of Specialty Trades which had a commercial art program. Otto was only accepted to the High School of Specialty trades and found out later that his teachers neglected to tell him that he needed to take a test in order to get into the School of Music and Arts (Neals 1995, 39-41).

The School of Specialty trades proved to be a very disappointing experience for Otto. Hoodlums and gang members composed a large part of the student body. According to him, the art program that enticed him to go to school "was nothing more than a glorified sign painting" program. The materials that they used in class wasn't the same "top of the line equipment" available at other public High Schools. Overall, Otto felt cheated out of a proper education by the public school system (Neals 1995, 40-41).

After Otto graduated from High School in 1949, he worked for an ironing Board factory. At that time the Black community was slowly gaining political power and the attention of the Democratic Party. Manning Marable described the years proceeding World War II and some time afterwards as a period where a "substantial number of blacks" entered sectors of the unionized work force. According to Marable the presence of Blacks influenced the Unions to become more sympathetic towards desegregation. The union officials' loyalty towards the civil rights movement was very conditional. Marable points out that trade unions refused to support any Black leaders or organization who were affiliated with the communist party. He contends that this conditional support of the Civil Rights movement was also offered by Democratic officials who needed the aid of Black voters to help them win tight elections in districts where Blacks were allowed to vote (Marable 1991, 17-18)

As America entered the Korean War, Otto was drafted and sent to train in Fort Bragg. He participated in integrated training programs in the Army and "endured more racism" (Fax 1977, 155). Though President H. Truman had promised desegregation to Blacks in the army, the activities of the Ku Klux Klan and segregationists were on the rise in the South (Marable 1991, 24). Otto found out that desegregation did not guarantee fair and equal treatment in the Armed Forces. As a sergeant, he had a humiliating experience when he was put in charge of a racially mixed platoon. Over several weeks, he trained the platoon to do field drills with arms. When the day came for his platoon to perform, a white sergeant took Otto's place at the ceremony and took full credit for training his men (Neals 1995). Otto's Army experiences were often humiliating that he was glad he never saw combat in the Korean War. His order to go to Korea was rescinded (Fax 1977, 155).

In 1955, Otto married Vera Brandis who was born originally in Barbarbos and then raised by her grandmother in both Guyana and Barbados. Fax believed that Otto's marriage to Vera was a major turning point in his life. According to Fax, Otto started to acknowledge his connections with African people in his country and across the globe. He traveled to Guyana and Barbados with his wife and children in order to meet his extended family. On the trip to Guyana, he attended a Pan-African conference. These trips served to strengthen his desire to seek farther interaction with people of African descent. At home Otto became active in the Fulton Art Fair and was part of an art group called the 20th Century Creators (Fax 1977, 156).

Otto participated in the Fulton Art Fair for the first time in 1958. Ernest Crichlow and Jacob Lawrence started the Fulton art as a place for artists to socialize, share ideas, and meet local artists in the neighborhood. The Fulton Art Fair was Otto's first meeting with artists who would eventually become well known. This group of famous artists included Crichlow, Lawrence, Tom Feelings, Vincent Smith, Selvin Goldbourne and Vivian Keys (Neals 1995, 42).

In 1963, the 20th century creators exhibited at the 125th NAACP Street Branch in Harlem. According to Kay Brown, the creators consisted of a coalition of fifty artists of "varying disciplines" under the leadership of James Sneed and Malika Rahman. The show was called "Black Art for Black People" and ran for several months. Later in the summer they did another show in the Abraham Lincoln Community Center. This show was accompanied with workshops, lectures, and demonstrations designed to "educate" the community. The creators disbanded afterward, due to ideological differences. In 1967, some of the former members of the Creators started Weusi, a word that means "Blackness" in Swahili. Original Weusi Members opened a cooperative gallery and sought to bring the awareness of Pan-African Cultures to the Harlem community through exhibitions, public festivals and celebrations. The Weusi gallery provided a center where artists could exchange ideas with one another. The Weusi artists consisted of Abdullah Aziz. Falcon Beazer, Kay Brown, Gaylord Hassan, Bill Howell, Rudy Irwin (Saba Kachenga), Otto Neals, Ademola Olugebefola, Okoe Pyatt, James Phillips, James Sepyo, Taiwo Shabazz, and Nii Ahene Mettle Nunoo from Ghana. Weusi members also held art workshops. They wanted people in their community to be exposed to art (Brown 1995, 5-7).

According to Barry Gaither the styles of Weusi artists share African Heritage as common theme in their work, but this is where the similarities end. Gaither describes some of Ademola Olugebefola as "closely akin to African Art" in its "psychological presence." He insists that the work of Gaylord Hassan is more "descriptive and narrative" in it's derivations of African subject matter. He also maintains that the work of James Phillips utilizes the complex African polyrhythmic patterns found in African design and Jazz. He concludes that Weusi is the "shared perspectives on the importance of their African heritage" (Gaither 1990, 29).

Weusi was one of many Black artist groups in the nation at the time. In Chicago, another artist group was started called AfriCobra. The name stands for "Commune of Bad Relevant Artists." AfriCobra was engaged in the similar cultural activities as Weusi (Gaither 1990, 27). Another artist group that began at this time was Spiral. Started by Romare Bearden, Mary Campbell observed that the activities of Spiral were more conservative than the other two previously mentioned groups (Campbell 1986, 47).

In 1974, Otto travelled to Ghana. Since the 1950's Ghana had become a home for U.S. Black artists interested in reclaiming their spiritual heritage. African American artists like John Biggers and Tom Feelings have used the cultural landscape of Ghana as themes in their own work (Gaither 1990, 24). Otto travelled to Ghana because of his admiration of Kwame Nkrumah's attempt to create "unity amongst African People." One of his etchings of Nkrumah hangs in the Ghana National Museum as a memorial of him (Fax 1977, 160).

Otto's stay in Ghana was different from that of a common tourist due to the goodwill of Nii Ahene, a fellow Weusi member who was from Ghana. Ahene made sure that Otto lived amongst his local friends and family (Fax 1977, 160). This living arrangement helped to provide an atmosphere of kinship that helped Otto connect easily with the people and the land:

From 1974, Otto shared studio space with Vivian Schuyler Key for eight years. Key was a sculptor and painter who had established herself during the Harlem Renaissance of the 1920s, and was one of Otto's mentors. Her work was exhibited by the Harmon Foundation (Fax 1977, 158-160). During their period together Key convinced Otto to work with stone sculpture:

A lot of what Otto knows about printmaking was learned at Bob Blackburn's printmaking workshop studio in Manhattan. Bob's print shop is internationally renowned and his artwork well respected. Otto studied a variety of printmaking processes with Blackburn, Roberto Delomanico, Kirshna Reddy, and Khalid Mohammed from Sudan (Fax 1977, 162).

Otto worked for the Post Office for thirty-six years. It took him a few years to get a position in the Post Office's art department. He had started at a small entry-level position and eventually worked his way up to become head illustrator for the branches of Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Long Island City. Over the years, Otto made "hundreds of signs and illustrations" for them (Barnett 1993).

Ironically, many of the design techniques he learned at the School High of Specialty Trades were useful to him in the Post Office art department. One art project stands out as Otto's favorite. The postmaster was having the lobby of the Camden Plaza remodeled. He wanted Otto to paint a mural on one of the walls. Otto hated the idea of spending a lot of time standing in the lobby painting. So he convinced the postmaster to allow him to do a sculpture instead Otto had saved a huge mahogany table from trash several years before. He made an attractive woodcarving based on three stamps commemorating the 1976 Bicentennial. The sculpture was called The Spirit of 76. The sculpture is still in the lobby of Cadman Plaza (Neals 1995, 38-39).

Now retired from the Post office, Otto has more time to work on his own art projects and teach. He teaches a printmaking class in Bob Blackburn's print shop once a week for children and adults and charges each student $50 per month for the classes. Otto also runs the association of Caribbean American Artists (ACAA) art gallery in Brooklyn. Initially, the AGAA art gallery was supposed to be an art cooperative but it shifted focus owing to financial concerns; a lot of artists were unable to continue supporting the cooperative (Neals 1995, 43 & 52- 53). The gallery gave African, Caribbean, and African American artists an organization that offered Art classes to the community and provided a place for youth in the community to discuss their problems (Barnett 1994).

INTERVIEW

Otto: The proprietor told my partner that he wanted me to have a one-man show in Hartford. A nice little place up in Hartford. I think the opening is the first or second in August.

Richard: I remember awhile back you were involved in establishing your own gallery.

Otto: Well, I have been involved in showing in outside places as well. For a year now, I said that I would not be doing anything with galleries really, except for the ones that I had prior commitments with. I wasn't selling my work for a whole year, except those I had a prior down payment from. I have been in a bit of self-denial. I decided since I was getting these commissions, I would take my work off the market for awhile. This was also the advice of one of my art advisors. The year will be up in August and the first show will be at Dorsey's. I have been trying to do some work to have new pieces that I have not shown at Dorsey's. I have been trying to complete the work for the up and coming show and the commissioned work. I have commissioned work up in Harlem and Prospect Park.

Otto: The playground! They are going to completely renovate the entire playground, and my sculpture is going to be placed within the playground. It is based on Erza Jack Keats, a writer of several children's books. He's a white author but his principle character is a little black boy named Peter and his dog, Willie. So, the sculpture will be a little black child and a Dasher. It will be a little bigger than life size. Peter is six years old. So I had a six-year old boy model for the piece. I made it ten percent bigger than life size so that the boy would not be dwarfed. There is a chair involved because a chair plays an important part in one of the stories. It is a little child's chair that he outgrew and passed on to his little brother.

The original concept was to have the entire thing done in bronze. That would have a little boy sitting on top of a rock with his legs crossed reading a book (The Boy). He would be about 2 1/2 and 3 feet off the ground. The dog is trying to get at him, so he is bending over touching the dog. The whole thing was originally conceived in bronze but to do a bronze sculpture eight feet across would have been an astronomical cost. So the designer and myself decided to go to a quarry, choose a stone about the size and shape that we want and have them chisel out certain areas.

The way I designed it, there would be pockets that could be used as seats for the kids. The idea is that when teachers come out with the kids, they could sit on the rock and children would sit around them. We could use natural rock from the quarry or make the rock. Many of the rocks that we see in the zoos are man-made, sometimes with composition stone. I guess that way, I could have it made exactly like I wanted it. But then there is the idea that it is not really real. I rather it be completely real.

I was in a competition for a sculpture for the Langston Hughes library. I had what I thought was a fantastic idea; a bronze skeleton of a book. Picture a book, open and you can see through its glass pages. It would have a bronze plaque inscribed with one of his poems called "I've Known Rivers." The fringes would have leaves of a tree with a plaque in the center. The leaves would be jewel glass. There would be a pedestal with a bust of Langston Hughes. The whole thing would be positioned so that when the sun comes up from the east in the morning, the light would cause the jewel glass to shimmer. They seemed to like the idea. I have to add that I was in competition with some very fine artists.

Otto: Valerie Maynard who is fantastic, brother Ousman from Senegal, Ogundipe Foyami, who is working on this project up in Harlem with me, and Joe Maynard, a cousin of Valerie's.

The money was sparse too for the type of thing that I had in mind. So I gave them an over budget which they didn't particularly care for. They asked me if I would go for having the piece done in another material. I had to say no. They had in mind bonded bronze. It was cheaper but to a trained eye it was noticeable. I was doing the work for the prestige of having a bronze sculpture.

Richard: Do commissions help your career? I have heard many artists becoming broke trying to complete them.

Otto: Commissions can help in a sense but financially, very little. In cases, they can hurt you. One artist I know, he did this fine piece for the subway. He completed the work and asked the foundation to pay him and pickup the work. They said they were not ready for the project yet. So he had to put the work in storage. After 2 to 3 years the Transit Authority were still not ready and the payments for storage were coming out of the artists pocket. That was a huge disappointment. I also faced disappointment with a Malcolm X commission for the Transit Authority. I had put a lot of work into it. Because of the nature of the subject I thought it was a sure thing. That competition put me against Charles Searles whom is a fantastic artist, Tyrone Mitchell and Maren Hassinger. Tyrone Mitchell and Maren Hassinger are abstract artists. I thought because I was a figurative artist, a bust of Malcolm would be exactly what they wanted. I felt that if I didn't get the work, Charles Searles who is fantastic painter and sculptor would get it. But when one of the abstract painters got it, I was really shocked. I didn't know what to expect. There is really no sure thing. The whole experience was a lesson.

Otto: Yeah, I remember going to church. My family came from a Methodist background. My mother requested that I go when I was young, and I did. I went when I was older, but I really wasn't in to it. I can say that I enjoyed going to church because there were more spirits there, even in the Methodist churches. They had a whole lot more feeling there. It was much more real than going to church up here in the North. I do not think that religion played much of a part in my life, maybe the spirituality. There is a difference between religion and spirituality. Spirituality can come from many sources. The church often was a place to socialize with like- minded people. I found that wasn't the type of socializing I wanted to do.

Otto: I did everything, illustrations, posters, gold leaf lettering for doors. The front of the building, 271 Camden Plaza, I did in gold lettering. I was the Head Illustrator for the branches of Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Long Island City. The postmaster was having the lobby remodeled at a tremendous cost. He took away marble and replaced it with sheet rock. Some of the marble actually had prehistoric shells and twigs in it. I'm sure the contractor knew what he had and sold some of it to sculptors or whoever.

After this major construction, the postmaster told me he wanted a big mural there. I dreaded the idea of being in the lobby working on this huge wall. One day he called me in and I gave my proposal for doing a sculpture. I told him that it would cost a minimum of money, because I had a lot tools. So they gave me the go ahead. If you look in the lobby of the main post office, the piece is still there. It is called The Spirit of 76. This is a replica of three stamps. It took about two months to do.

Otto: Like I said, I was Head Illustrator. I was a sign painter first, then an illustrator, and then head illustrator.

Otto: I was with the art department over 25 years. We were a staff of 12 or 15 people. They want to do away with the department now. I have been out almost 7 1/2 years. They only have three people now. Now they get a lot of posters from Washington instead of stuff that relates directly to the experience.

Richard: Do you think that was partly due to the general lack of funding that currently faces the Arts?

Otto: Yeah, I think it was part of an overall lack of respect for the Arts. More and more, people are disrespecting the arts. Republicans in Congress are talking about completely doing away with funding by 1997--people who do not know what art is.

Richard: You didn't even get much of an art education when you were in public school.

Otto: It's funny, I was in public school and getting ready to graduate. They are supposed to help you choose a school. I heard about the High School of Music and Art. It was supposed to be the school of Art. I put it down as my first choice. Then I put down Herron High School. They had industrial design. The last choice was Brooklyn High School for specialty trades. They had a commercial art program. It turned out that I got my third choice. I found out later that the school for specialty trades was more the school for hoodlums. One of the kids I graduated with was an infamous mafioso, Joey Gallo.

Otto: No, but he was affiliated with some of the Gambiano Crime Family. Joe Gallo was the one shot down in the cafe in Greenwich Village. There were a lot of Italian and Irish gangs: the Red Rover Boys, the Garfield Boys. They would come to school with their German Lugers, and .45s. Everyone portrayed the Blacks and Puerto Ricans as the bad ones. It was incredible. They would come and yell, "Hey Joey, hey Joey." (laughs.) They would come to school with their Eisenhower jackets on and wear their hats all day. This was the type of school I went to.

I found out the course that I had was nothing more than a glorified sign painting course. I appreciated that later but it was not what I wanted. I found out later that the other schools had materials that we never knew existed. They gave us railroad board to draw on, instead of illustration board. We didn't have top-of-the-line equipment. Years later, I ran into my former teacher. I had mentioned in an article that I sent to him about how we lacked materials. He took offense and asked why I didn't tell him? Here I am a schoolboy and he is the teacher. He should have known that we were not getting the proper equipment.

The teachers I had never said that in order to get into high school you have to take a test. They just said check off this and check off that and hand it in. The high school I got in to was a very poor school.

Otto: Not in those days. Your official teacher was your guidance counselor. And if they choose not to guide you, you were not guided. Anyhow, I mentioned this to my teacher.

Richard: You would think that was a little after the fact. He probably wanted you to speak about him in glowing terms.

Otto: (Laughs.) He was good at what he did. His particular thing was sign painting. I wanted to be taught fine art. For his job the materials were correct, but there were a lot of materials he could have had that he did not. There was no reason why we could not have illustration board too. We had a couple of other teachers that dealt with the fine arts that had illustration board. So he might have been personally offended. He was one of three teachers I had.

Otto: Back in 1958. That was the first year I participated in the Fulton Art Fair. Ernest Crichlow was a founding member as well as Jacob Lawrence. Ernie continued all through 36 years. Jacob left the city after awhile. That was my earliest meeting with Crichlow in 1958. The Fulton Art Fair had a lot of artists that became well known. You had Crichlow, Lawrence, Tom Feelings, Vincent Smith, Selvin Goldbourne, Vivan Keys, some of the contemporaries like Leroy Campbell and Verna Hart.

Some of us thought that having shows in the community would be a good thing. It helped to inspire others. A lot of people would not have gotten involved in art if it weren't for these shows. It was a community thing. Many artists came out just for the sake of coming out. Meeting other artists, sharing ideas.

At the time Emmett Wigglesworth had a few silk screen demonstrations going on the sidewalk. This ended up helping to establish the silk screen set up at the Children's Art Carnival. There is an old hospital there at Convent Avenue and 144th Street. Whoever was the administrator of the building allowed the Children's Art Carnival to have a floor. So I taught a silk-screening course up there. From that Harlem Textiles evolved.

Otto: I just saw him a few hours ago on my way uptown to meet the contractors concerning the Strivers Row sidewalk plaques project on 135th street in Harlem.

On Friday nights I conduct a printmaking class at the Printmaking Workshop. It is not a formal class; people can come in anytime that they wish. I have been teaching etching there, for six to eight months. It is a special workshop. Bob is about 74 years old. He has a fantastic history, because he meets artists from all over the world. One of the instructors I had when I was going to the print shop passed away just a few years ago, Roberto De Lamonica. Like Bob Blackburn, he was a fantastic instructor. You had Khali Mohammmed from the Sudan and Krishna Reddy, who was teacher of the viscosity printing process. It was a printing technique using multi-colors. I was preparing a plate just yesterday using plenty of found material. I use this multi-colour technique to print up collages. I have not done many collages.

Otto: I think the first I did was five or six years ago. Two years ago I did a couple more. I am going to have quite a few at an up-and-coming show. I have been teaching this print workshop on Fridays in Bob Blackburn's Studio. I have six or seven students in the class.

Otto: It varies, some young, some old. It is mostly adults. Sometimes someone brings their kids. I guess the youngest one might be nineteen. It is $50 dollars a month, which is half of what it normally costs. It is payable per class so hopefully it won't be too harsh. (laughs.) Today, I want to makes textures, so they can have a look at my plates and collages.

Richard: Looking at works like Aaron Douglas, what did the Harlem Renaissance mean to you?

Otto: I have heard from speaking to Ernie and Bob that there was a bit more cooperation going on between the Black artists. There was none of this competition. The artists today are more isolated. Artists' back then seemed more willing to share.

Richard: Crichlow had dealt with isolation in several of his paintings where he had Black children playing alone.

Otto: That was what he probably observed in the community. Crichlow, Charles Alston, Romare Bearden, Bob Blackburn, Augusta Savage formed....

Richard: Do you think it is the fault of Black intellectuals? Back then you had Alain Locke.

Otto: It is the times we live in, times have changed. Some people have become very bitter. They can't see themselves involved in community projects unless there was money involved. Some of these people are very talented. For many things that we did like the Fulton Art Fair, a lot of people put themselves out in order to share ideas. But you have a new crop of people who don't seem to buy into that; they want to make the money now! That type of mentality has come about with a vengeance. I think the community suffers as a result of that.

Otto: I used to belong to this group called Weusi. It started out in the 60's. It started out as a group called the 20th Century Creators. I became part of it and used to have shows up in Harlem. There was a split and the president of the group broke one way, and the rest of the group broke another way. We formed the Weusi artists. Five of us from this group opened a gallery called Weusi, on 132nd Street. We stayed there for nine years and got a lot of attention.

Some of the actors of the Lafayette Theater were people that you might have seen on TV ... remember Grady from Sanford and Son, Whitfield Mayo? There was George Miles, Sonny Jim Gaines, and Carol Cole, Nat King Coles' adopted daughter. The theater group used to cooperate with us; we did murals, scenes, and sets for the plays. Ed Bullings was one of the playwrights. There was cooperation back then.

The Weusi preceded the Studio Museum in Harlem. The idea for the museum came after we were formed. The Studio opened probably in 1960. The Studio Museum in Harlem wanted us to be the first to show, but because of an internal dispute, we declined. The Museum opened up with works of Tom Lloyd. He did abstract works with light bulbs. The second show was the Weusi show. They say that was one of the best shows; people still talk about it. We took over the place and had a fantastic show. They invited us back and we had a second show.

Otto: No, we had two shows in the late 60's and early 70's. Individuals in the group have shown; Ademola, James Phillips, and few others in the group have shown.

Otto: Yeah there was Kay Brown. She used to do very nice things. She is also an author. She has written two books.

Otto: I loved it! It was the first foreign country I ever visited. It was so wonderful. I came in contact with so many people who behaved the way you expect people to behave. They were nice and normal as opposed to people here, who are crude and rude. It was nice being at a place where you had fresh air and good food.

Otto: Well some. Most of the people of Guyana live along the coastline, but in the interior were the Native Indians. The Indians retained the traditions, but the majority of people who lived on the coastline were westernized. Even so, there was a bit of Africa there. You might come across the Amerindians in the jungles as you travel deep into the interior. They see a car coming, and they run. Just like in Brazil, they have a history of being abused by people. Years ago, Indians used to hang around these forts and bring their gold to sell. This gold miner came around and killed 16 Indians. The miner's lawyer was quoted as saying, "We kill antelope, deer, and jaguar. What's the difference between them and a savage?" Even now in Brazil, people have been killing Indians because they are encroaching the Indians' land. They kill them at will and nothing happens.

It was in The New York Times recently, how they have been taking over the land at will. The government can't control them; they go in, destroy the Indians and take over the land. That is going on in Brazil today. I was impressed with Guyana because that was the first foreign place I had been to. I loved it and you can multiply that ten times because of the warm and love I experienced from the people I came in contact with.

Otto: I don't know if it's cultural but there was definitely a linkage. I can't divorce myself from my experiences here. You know that there is something wrong here, but you are a part of it. When you go to Africa, you know that there is a link there. There is a warmth there that touches something inside you. I don't know if I could say that about just being here. There is something strong. There is something mystical. There is something spiritual. There is ancestral linkage.

Richard: Is it felt through anything specific or from the overall cultural climate?

Otto: It is the overall climate. It hits you in different ways and in different spaces. When I visited Kumasi which is about the distance between New York and Washington D.C., I had the weirdest experience. I felt as though I had been there before. I was walking with people I just met. I would say that I know this place and that I have been here before. I know people would say that you are crazy.

There are some things I have witnessed with my own eyes that show you the power of the African. There is the so-called Witch Doctors or Medicine Man. I witnessed one taking a sharp knife and stabbing his whole body. There was not a drop of blood. At one point, he pulled down an eyelid and put the knife in the corner of his eye. This is something I have witnessed. I have seen them mash up bottles and chew the broken glass like it was candy. There was not a drop of blood. They would walk on glass or hot coals. I had seen photographs of this being done, but it was different seeing it firsthand.

Otto: I have done a couple of these pieces where there are certain vestiges based on that.

Otto: No! Well, I have not had much experience with the galleries, so I couldn't reflect on that. Many galleries probably would object, because they wouldn't understand what you are trying to say.

Richard: You were saying in the Elton Fax article that you felt that Guyana was losing a lot of its traditions. The old women who used to use natural herbs for healing are slowly disappearing.

Otto: Yeah, with most of that old fashioned stuff nobody wants to hear it. They rely on western medicine and give up the old stuff. I was once talking to a friend who is an Indian and lived in the village with my wife's family. We were sitting with this White man who said that his company was building roads in Brazil. He said they cut down 250,000 acres of timber. When I heard this my ears perked up. I said, what are you going to do with all that wood. He said that we are just going to burn it up. Brazil has all these rich beautiful woods.

Otto: They don't really keep up. Their resources are lost and they are not happier. There is change but that is about it.

Otto: That was in Guyana. Do you know Walter Rodney? He is the one who wrote How Europe Underdeveloped Africa. There is an another book that he wrote called Grounding with my Brothers. I was basically on the fringe, listening and learning.

Otto: It was! There was this guy I knew from Ghana, and I mentioned to him that I was going to Ghana. He said when you go, go by and say hello to my family. He told me that his family lived in a village called Labadi, on Post Office Road. The plane was a day late because we stopped everywhere. I didn't know it, but this guy's family was at the airport waiting for me. When the plane didn't show up, they went back home. So I checked into this hotel and started hanging out on my own.

I set out the next day, and I started looking for his family. I got into a cab and said, take me to Labadi. I told him I was looking for the Mette-Nunoo family. Nobody seems to know them. We keep driving around, and this guy stops us. He asks who we are looking for. I tell him and he says that he and his family were waiting at the airport for you yesterday. But it so happens I was driving around the wrong part of Labadi. He got in the cab with me and we drove to the family. He asked me where I was staying. I told him I was staying at the Star Hotel. He said, "Ah no, you are staying with the family." So that was where I stayed. My friend sent word that I was coming. So the family picked me up. When I got ready to go other places they sent word and I would stay with other people.

I was staying at the University of Science and Technology with someone. Everyday this young lady would come and put food on the table. When I was getting ready to leave, I went into my pocket to give her ten dollars, and she said no. In their country ten dollars is about a month's pay. She was 26 or 27 years old. A policeman makes a little more than eleven dollars a month. I was going to give her ten American dollars and she refused to take it. That's how they were. One day I saw little boys sitting on the stairs, and I gave them money to get me a soda. And a boy comes back with a case of sodas and gives me back my money.

Otto: I think, I wanted to but I was afraid academically. I wasn't really good in math. I could have gone on the G. I. bill.

Richard: When is the first time that you met James Denmark? Was that with Crichlow as well?

Otto: No, that was several years later. The first time that I met him was at the state office building. The state office building was collecting art and he and I submitted works. I guess several pieces each. They collected some of mine and some of his. I know some of the good people who didn't collect. One of who was Vivian Schuyler Key, my mentor. She would be ninety years old now. I had a studio downtown on Hanson Place when I got involved in stone sculpture. Mrs. Key was a fantastic sculptor, and she used to model. She used to talk about how great the stone carvers were. So, I kept saying that I was going to get involved in sculpture. I assume that she was feeling the same way too, since she was always talking about stones. So one day, I came in the studio and there were these stone cutting tools there. She bought me stone cutting tools. We were talking about it for years. I guess she got tired of hearing me talk about it. This about 1974, when I got my first piece of stone.

I saw this guy sitting on a piece of stone a couple of blocks from the gallery. One day I came with a file and saw that it cuts the stone really well. So, I took the stone and put in the gallery. The stone was white with green veins. I carved a head of boy staring at a snake wrapped around the trunk of a tree. The green of the stone formed a profile on the boy.

After that I was so interested that I began to pick up other stones. I used to find lot of stones in the Fort Green Area from torn down buildings. I just started buying stones recently, some huge pieces. From one of these pieces I carved Pride. It is on my business card. It weighs around two hundred pounds. I filed most of it down. I bought African Wonderstone around two months ago. It cuts beautifully but is also very delicate. It has a steady density but scratches easily so you have to be careful with it.

Otto: In the Westinghouse High School, they gave you other subjects before you got involved in your main subjects. They called the class Metal/Bronze. They had us dig a mold and pour out melted lead. That's how I learned, but I never did it by myself. I would send the piece out and then make a sand-cast from it. There are a lot of things involved with bronze, patina which is the colour. The polishing was very expensive.

Richard: When did you do the bronze crocodile sculpture in the window of the gallery?

Otto: I did a wood carving of that piece. Years later I decided to do a bronze one, so I had a mold done of it. The original wood was Sycamore. I found this Sycamore along the islands on Linden Boulevard. I left it in the hall for many months and one day I saw a crocodile. All I had to do was remove the parts to create it. The cast looked like wood, and I sold it. The next one is a high polished brass. I plan to do to a green patina when I am ready.

Otto: I have probably seen masks similar to that. I put down the mask and started working in harmony with it.

Otto: It is supposed to be a Co-op now, but the Co-op is just me. We had twenty or so artists involved. If everyone paid their dues it wouldn't be that bad. Many of them dropped out because of their economic condition. I think it does good things for the community, because art helps the community survive. Right now, there is work of David Wilson and John Harris. Those two are more helpful than some of the others. They rent the space like Jackie Peterscully and Marsha Brambell.

Sometimes a group of artists will get together, and each one gets three pieces for the wall, depending on the size of their work. A variety of people come to see the work. People come from colleges like Medgar Evers and Brooklyn College, choose a particular piece of work and write about it.

Otto: Yeah, they come form Brooklyn College or Manhattan. We had a van full of people from Maine come. I think most of them were White. They were writing an article. They read about it in some state paper in Maine. They made a trip down to see the show.

Richard: Do you think a lot of African American artists are working on trendy concepts?

Richard: Do you feel that your work will lose its militancy if you show in major galleries?

Otto: I don't think my work demonstrates militancy. I see the tendency for some people to try and put you into a particular type of bag in a way to more or less control you. Somebody may say certain things but not loudly. A certain amount of independence is lost when one aligns oneself with a mainstream gallery.

Otto: I know of it. I know the curator. Everything was negative from what I have seen.

Richard: I have an artist friend who said that the Cosbys tried to stop the show from leaving New York.

Otto: Well, now I respect him even more. (Laughs.) The curator was the curator at the Jamaican Arts Center. The establishment chooses people that are beneficial to them. I think that is what happened. There was nothing positive about the show. There were no positive images. The trend is to portray Black people in that manner. Some people know what their jobs are and try to fulfill them.

Otto: In some of the African Cultures, the serpent is a sign of wisdom and longevity. What I tried to show here with the elder figure and the serpent figure coiled above his head, is a sign of wisdom. The pearl also signifies the third eye, which is supposed to be the seat of intuitiveness inside a person. I think I did this piece in 1976. It was made of stained sycamore.

Otto: Several people are no longer with us. We have lost four of our members. Here is a list of those who have passed away. Rene Pyatt is the brother of Okoe Pyatt. Rene was an artist but was not a member of the group. Bill Howell, Rudy Irvin (Baba Kachenga), G. Falcon Beazer were members of the group. The rest - Alfred C. Washington (Wachuku), David Daniels, Charles Abramson - were associated with the gallery. Some of them were members of the original group. The Weusi came from a group called the 20th Century Creators. Most of the others were members of the 20th Century Creators. I don't think Charles Abramson or David Daniels were original members. It was a very good show. Have you ever been up to the Jamaica art gallery?

Otto: It is a pretty large space. We occupied the two galleries as you came in from the door. As you walk in on the right side there are two galleries. On the other side there is the Miller gallery which featured another one of Weusi associates. Hameed Benjamin, some excellent work in the Miller Gallery.

Otto: He has made quite a name for himself in painting, watercolors and lithography. I guess the curator wanted to have his works shown, but he wasn't a member of Weusi, just an associate of the group. The Weusi Show had only Weusi members. Hameed is a fantastic draftsman. Some of his lithographs, which are produced at Bob Blackburn's workshop, were handled by the Jamaica Arts Center. I have brought two of his pieces myself. They are very fine pieces, two lithographs. His watercolors are very tight. It is almost as if he was painting in oils. They very well done and controlled.

Otto: I believe so. His lithographs are incredibly detailed. He loaned me two pieces, two watercolors. A couple of years ago at the Museum (Brooklyn) before they built the new wing, they had a cubbyhole upstairs as you get off the elevators. They were beautiful watercolors, very tight. Hameed's work reminds of those masterful watercolors. I can't believe they were watercolors when I saw them.

ON HIS ART

Otto's current artwork continues to follow the traditions of contemporary Black art of the 1950s, 60's, and 70's. The political, cultural, and personal condition of people of African ancestry is still the central issue addressed in Otto's art. The following images are samples of Otto's current artwork. Accompanied are descriptions of what motivated him to create each piece:

I was inspired by the political and social happenings in Haiti when I created this piece. It describes the hardships that the Haitians were experiencing. In this particular instant you have the warmth of a mother's love towards her children. I did not use actual images. The actual images were a South African woman holding a child. I translated this into a Haitian situation. It was taken out of news clipping. It was not an exact copy. It was just the ideal. I guess this exhibits Pan-Africanism on some level. I am deeply struck by anything that effects African people...in South Carolina, Georgia, Jamaica, South Africa, Haiti, Harlem, Bed-stuy (Neals 1995, 56).

It represents a young Trinidadian woman who had a sensitive face. I think that she was eighteen or nineteen.

That is a serigraph based on sketches I began in the sixties. I was surrounded by African ideas that popped up in my head. It was done over in the studio of Lloyd Van Pitterson. He was a founding member of the ACAA art Gallery. He passed away three years ago. He did a lot of beautiful paintings, pastels and silkscreens work. He made a living just from his artwork. The type of work he did, decorators loved. Decorators would use his type of work. The colour schemes particularly made his work in high demand. His artwork is in the Queen of England's Art collection, Elizabeth Taylor, and other prominent people. He did everything, mainly a lot of landscapes, flowers and beach scenes. He had a complete setup for silkscreen in his home. I think I did the original sketches back at the ACAA Gallery (Neals 1995, 56-57).

This is something I thought of, a woman singing. I chose the subject of Black opera singers. I do not frequent operas. Some of the Opera Singers like Jessie Norman would dress like this. Two years ago I returned to a style that I had done many years before. I was sort of looking for something to do, so I chose that subject. During this time, I did several things with that hard edge. I did the Warriors, The Quest, The Supplicant, and Her Mother's Love (Neals 1995, 57).

This piece was done in oak. The subject is a free spirited Black woman. This is the first time I tried carving the endgrain of the wood. Normally you carve with the grain or against the grain. It is much harder to do. The wood cracks especially the endgrain part. Some people keep the wood from cracking by taking special measures like boiling the wood or sandblasting the wood, but the wood is going to crack (Neals 1995, 57-58).

This is a bronze sculpture of a woman giving praises to the most high, the Creator. For giving her all that she has. It is a religious piece! (Neals 1995, 58).

In Egypt, there is a sculpture in a field in Saccara. There were these two statues. At one time they must have been in a surrounding temple, but all that is left are these statues in the field. At one time, they say that at a certain time of day the statues used to emit a sound. They used to call them the Singing Statues of Memnon. People today try to explain the situation by saying that the sound is caused by the dew collecting during the night being affected by tremendous amount of heat of the day. I have not heard it, or even know if it still does it. I conceived of a piece of sculpture like that but in a form of a vessel. I called it The Spirit of Memnon because it looked like them (Neals 1995, 58).

This was based on a young lady that I met in North Carolina. She had this sassy look about her. I told her I wanted to sketch her and I took some photographs of her too. The sketches were done in pencil. It is an etching acquatint, so you really do not pick up too many lines. Acquatint is where you get a lot of tones. I had bitten the plate pretty deeply so there are a lot of tones. I did some scraping and what not, so it came out like a modeled piece (Neals 1995, 58).

I did this completely out of my head. I did not use a model for it at all. I saw in my mind this image. So I sat there with some clay and started working the image. I have seen African woman wearing headdresses like this one, mainly in East Africa. It is actually a band with strips on her head. It is really stylized since I did not copy it from anything. I wanted to suggest a headband.

Vivian Keys didn't like the way that I did my eyes. She used to say that you must have more eyes. I always made my eyes narrow. She likes wide eyes, so she didn't particularly care for the eyes that I did. She was a total realist. She didn't go for any stylization. She loved Charles White and Tanner. She liked Ernie Crichlow too. She liked the more Academic artists.

Ernest Crichlow's work might not have been focused on over the years, because he uses an academic style. His hard edge style conflicts with the modern trend. Ernie Crichlow did not do stylizations in his work until recently with his murals and some of the paintings that he has done. Morgan Freeman bought some of his pieces. That was about three years ago. He had a show at Cinque Gallery a few years ago. He established that gallery with Norman Lewis and Romare Bearden. They are over there at Broadway now. That is the third location as I know it. They were on Lafayette Street at first, then they moved up to 76th Street on the ground floor of a hotel and then they moved to Broadway. It is very difficult to stay open with the amount of rent that is charged (Neals 1995, 59).

During my studies with a painter from India named Krisha Reddy, with whom I studied viscosity printing, I learned how to do multiple colors on one plate using his technique. I did Emergence during that class. I had said that the snake is considered the symbol of wisdom and longevity. I thought it was the crocodile. In some cultures, the crocodile is considered to be the symbol of the first being, the first thing. The crocodile came first and everything evolved from the crocodile. So I have been using it in my pieces to show Emergence (Neals 1995, 59-60).

This came about from going to South Carolina and finding this Spanish moss all over the place. It was hanging off trees and on the ground and I decided to make use of it. I took it, brought it back, dried it and composed these works. I glued them down to the plate using Elmer's glue. The earrings were the rims of film cassettes. The piece is made of fabric, Elmer's glue, cardboard, and Spanish moss (Neals 1995, 60).

"Young Nanny was a freedom fighter in Jamaica." I tried to portray a young nanny. I used a young Haitian girl as a model. She had a very proud face, so I thought it worked very well. It is in an edition of three. The first one is green patina, the next was brown, and the last was black (Neals 1995, 60).

This depicts a "religious person praying to the Lord so that he may bless or console her. The piece was done in Walnut, which is hard to work but is nice looking."

I witnessed a lot of things that would be considered religious when I was in Ghana. I witnessed three funerals, one in Kumasi and two in Accra. It was so strange and sort of beautiful. One day I was in a village and heard this noise, and there was an army of people coming. There must have been fifty thousand people coming or more. It was almost like the Carnival Parade on Eastern Parkway. They were dancing and drumming, so I asked one of the people what was happening. He said this is a funeral. This is a funeral, I asked! He said, yes this is a funeral. People are marching by, and after a half-hour they came by twirling the coffin above their heads. It twirled over a sea of heads. I was told it was a soccer player who had died. At the end of the procession, they were kicking soccer balls around. They said he was a soccer player, and if he were alive, he would be playing soccer.

In Kumasi it was more somber. Maybe it was royalty or something. There were a lot of Chiefs, priests and what not. But then again, I might have seen these at different stages. They wear cloths of different colors. Black, this rust colour, and this purple-brown were the funeral colors (Neals 1995, 60-61).

I went to one of the places where they sold Kente cloth. It is a fascinating thing to see. You see them weave this beautiful cloth from this traditional contraption. It took some time, but to see them work this very elaborate contraption with no metal parts was amazing. Kente is done in strips and then sewn together to make a large piece. I understand that each of the sections within the Kente is like an alphabet, it can be read.

References

Barnett, Coral B. Anthropmorphism, David Gerard Wilson. NY: The Association of Caribbean American Artists (ACAA), 1994.

Barnett, Coral B. Musings: A Retrospective of the Multifaceted Artistry of Otto Neals. NY: The Association of Caribbean American Artists (ACAA), 1993.

Bearden, Romare & Harry Henderson, Harry. A History of African American Artists. NY: Panthenon Books, 1993.

Brown, Kay, "The Weusi Artists," Weusi: The Movement A Renaissance Retrospective, NY: Jamaica Arts Center, 1995.

Campbell, Mary. Tradition & Conflict: Image of a Turbulent Decade 1963- 1973. NY: The Studio Museum in Harlem, 1986.

Driskell, David. Two Centuries of Black American Art. NY: LA County Museum of Art, 1976.

Gaither, Edmund Barry, "Heritage Reclaimed" in Black Art: Ancestral Legacy, Dallas Museum of Art, NY: Harry N. Abrams, 1989, 17-35.

Locke, Alain. The Negro in Art. Washington D.C: Associates In Negro Folk Education, 1940.

Neals, Otto "Conversations," Association of Caribbean American Artists (ACAA) Gallery, New York, July-August 1995.

Nzegwu, Nkiru, "A Circle of Dibias: Making Vessel of Memory and Life," Uncommon Beauty in Common Objects, Wilberforce, Ohio: National Afro-America Museum and Cultural Center, 1993, 2-15.

--------------. "Selected Artists," Uncommon Beauty in Common Objects, Wilberforce, Ohio: National Afro-America Museum and Cultural Center, 1993, 24- 108.

Olugebefola, Ademola & Weusi Academy, "Select Highlights of Weusi History," Weusi The Movement A Renaissance Retrospective, NY: Jamaica Arts Center, 1995.

Williams, Juan. Eyes on the Prize, America's Civil Rights Years 1954-1965. NY: Penguin Books, 1988.


	I wish to thank Otto Neals for the numerous interview sessions I had with him over the years. Also, I am very grateful for his patience and diligence in cross- checking all the biographical and historical information in this essay. Our last interview session was November 1, 2000.

Ijele: Art eJournal of the African World (2000)

ISSN: 1525-447X

OTTO NEALS: ARTIST AND TEACHER

INTERVIEW

ON HIS ART

References